Hi there. Welcome to Everything is a People Problem, a podcast that explores the connections between business, culture, and community, uncovering how every business problem has a people centric solution. I'm your host, Dia Zafer-Joyce. Let's talk about people.
Hi there, welcome back. I'm Dia, and I'm your host for Everything is a People Problem. To introduce today's topic, I would like to tell you the story about how I tried to run the Chicago Marathon in 2008 with nearly no training at all. In college, I was a springboard and platform diver. I was recruited to Clemson for diving, so as a diver, you don't really run that much. In fact, I actually realized I had asthma because I was trying to work out and do drills in a natatorium and I was wheezing like nobody's business and I didn't know why. Surprise, it's asthma.
During my first finals season, I would drink too much coffee and be up late at night because I was studying and I didn't know how to burn off some steam. And so at 12 a. m., 1 a. m., I would actually go out and run across campus. And it was dark and cold and it felt so good on my lungs. And so I finally realized I enjoyed running. It just turns out I enjoyed doing it in the middle of the night and in colder weather. Eventually, I started to do it in the daytime and there was a 5k and it was the race to the rock.
At Clemson the rock, Howard's Rock, is a big deal and it's in the stadium and it came from Death Valley. So we had a 5k race where you ended at the rock and I really wanted to do this race. And so I signed up, and I ran, I ran the whole time, I got a really cool shirt, I still have it to this day. It is ratty as anything, but I'm so proud of it because it was my very first 5K. So that 5k led to the turkey trot in Chicago over Thanksgiving, which was another 5k. And then that turkey trot led to another turkey trot, which was a 10k. And then after that, I was graduating, and then naturally, I thought the next step would be to sign up for the Chicago Marathon, which is 26. 2 miles.It's a lot of k's.
And at that time, in 2008, the Chicago Marathon didn't have a lottery system, so people could willingly without any reservation enroll themselves in this experience because they had decided like me that they wanted to. So my training plan was non existent. I did look one up to be fair, but I certainly didn't follow it. My longest run was six miles I remember that run to this day in my mind and then I kind of phoned it in and then my running buddy and I just get on this course and shockingly we made it to mile 16. We were not in great shape, but we did it. We made it to mile 16 and that's when we called it. We took a bus to come back. Lots of people on this bus were hurting a lot more than we were, but I think our pride was hurt more than our bodies The worst part about this is not that we didn't finish the race, is that my mom, who I love and who is the ever optimist, bought us finisher's gear because she of course assumed that we would finish, and we had to ask her to return it because it just felt so disingenuous to wear it and we hadn't actually finished the race.
So, how did I make it so far on such little training? Runner's World talked to Dr. Steven Sieler. He's from the University of Agder in Norway, and he's one of the world's foremost exercise physiologists. And he said that elite athletes train about 80 percent of the time at low intensity, and only spend about 20 percent of their time training hard. That's called the 80 percent capacity method. He goes on to say that many recreational runners feel like they have to go hard every time. They end up doing a lot more than 20 percent of workouts that are difficult or challenging. And initially, they improve. But then over time, they start to stagnate. And the problem is that they've become too fatigued to do high intensity sessions, and ultimately, their performance tanks.
A runner who just doesn't know better believes that maximum effort is going to equal maximum results, and that's just not true. Okay, why am I talking about running so much on a business podcast? It's because the 80 percent capacity method absolutely applies to business. It's called the 85 percent rule, and the 85 percent rule suggests that in order to reach your maximum output as an employee, you need to refrain from giving maximum effort.
If you're operating at 100 percent all the time, that's going to result in burnout and ultimately give less favorable results. When employees work past exertion and they go into overexertion, it results in what's called effortless action. Basically, past a certain point, more effort does not produce better performance. In fact, it sabotages performance and results in a diminished output. As a manager, honoring the 85 percent rule is critical. This is a people problem because if you don't, it causes burnout. Zippia and Jack Flynn of Zippia. com did an incredible study in 2023 about burnout and the statistics around stress and lack of motivation in the workplace, and they found 89 percent of workers have experienced burnout within the last year. In fact, between 2021 and 2022, the burnout rate had increased by 13. 5%. So in 2022 alone, We were at 60 percent burnout rate. And then in 2023 jumped to nearly 90 percent burnout rate. So it's only going up.
The old management mindset is very similar to that recreational runner where they believe maximum effort equals maximum results. Many companies, especially in Silicon Valley, still operate under this model. These companies, and all companies, have to be really careful if they follow up this demanding work schedule with things like wellness apps or budgets to be able to provide wellness materials for you. That's a great benefit, and I deeply appreciate it. But when you also are expecting people to work 80 plus hours a week in addition to offering free yoga classes or free therapy sessions. The hard part is that creates what's called a toxic contradiction. It's a lose lose situation where you're providing a respite for employees, but you're not actually backing that up with a healthy work environment.
In my very first episode, we were talking about how disengaged employees cost a business money. Well, workplace stress costs the U. S. economy, on average, 300 billion dollars per year. And a lot of these costs are a result of absenteeism, diminished productivity, and accidents because people are tired. And those accidents contribute to annual health care costs of 190 billion dollars. Isn't that bonkers?
This is a really tough topic because you think about the complexity of burnout and how much that is controlled by the company itself and upper leadership. So as a manager, you could hear all of this and say, “But what could I possibly do to make an impact on my employees lives?” I am so glad you asked that question, because I'm going to share a few things that I've found in articles and in my own practice that combat workplace stress as much as we can and is within our control. Remember, control what you can, influence what you can't. So what can you control?
Well number one, you can ask for less than maximum capacity. People often mistake the perception of maximum effort with what actually produces maximum results because truly highest effort does not always equal highest performance. So as a manager, We need to start asking better questions. Like, “What does it feel like to be at 100 percent intensity?” And then follow that with, “How can you keep this closer to the 85 percent level?” This is perceived level of exertion. It's also used in physical rehabilitation, when someone has had surgery or an injury, and it prevents latent or hidden fatigue. But managers can use this to find that sweet spot for employees so that that way they don't creep past the point where they should rest and then extend into overexertion.
This leads us to the second thing you can do, which is encourage 85 percent-right decisions. So when you're making choices as a team, don't push to be a hundred percent perfect, make 85 percent-right, acceptable. There are two types of perfectionists. The first one is called “excellence seeking.” They're the ones that hold high standards for themselves and for other people. The second is called “failure avoiding.” These are the people who are constantly anxious that their work is not sufficient or enough, and they fear losing credibility and reputation if they don't attain perfection. When you as a manager ask for 85 percent-right decisions, this removes unnecessary pressure from your highest performing employees, the ones that might even fall into one of those perfectionist camps, and it keeps your team moving forward rather than waiting for that exact 100 percent perfect answer before taking action.
The third thing is gonna hurt you a little bit. And as I say it, I recognize that I am also guilty of this. So, I'm saying what we all should be doing, which is, number three, set our own intensity as managers to 85%. If we don't set the example, then our employees are not going to follow suit. If we say to stop sending emails on nights and weekends, but then we send an email at 2 a. m. on a Sunday, our actions are going to speak louder than our words. That does not mean write the email at 2 a. m., but program the email to send at 9 a. m. on Monday. I don't want you to hear that and take that away from this conversation. If you as the manager are working past 85%, if you are pushing yourself to 100 percent and plus, you are going to become that burnout statistic. You will burn out and you cannot take the weight of your entire team on your shoulders alone. Set the example. Work at 85 percent ask yourself that question, “What is 100 percent intensity look like for me?” and then follow it up with, “What would it feel like if I toned that down to 85%?”
I love my books and there's a book that I am thinking about constantly in the course of this conversation. It's by Liz Wiseman and called “Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter.” The goal is to multiply your workforce, to get more work out of the same amount of people. That sounds very contradictory to the things we've been talking about, but wait. The way you do that is by identifying each of your employees’ Native Genius. What is Native Genius? It is that activity, that task, that thing that they do effortlessly, without being asked and without being paid. That is a skill set, something that they inherently do so easily that if you attune their skills to that Native Genius, they will do more work with less effort. If I've piqued your interest, please check it out. If you don't even know where to start to get your team at 85 percent as opposed to 100 percent this is absolutely the way to go. You will be focusing on your team's strengths and then creating assignments or giving them assignments based on those strengths which will inherently make their work easier. So start here if you really want to try exercising the 85 percent rule.
Before I go, I want to come back to the marathon. Clearly in 2008, it didn't work out, but I had my sight set on that finish line. So in 2016, I applied for the lottery, got in, and I trained. And when I did my training, which I followed religiously, I went up to 20 miles. The race is 26. 2, but my longest run was 20 miles, and in my mind I thought, “I have not actually run this distance. I am not going to make it.” Lo and behold, on race day, I made it. And not only did I make it, I felt abnormally great. I don't know how it happened, but I was heading home from the marathon and I was signing up for the Napa marathon, which is going to happen in six months. And that didn't go that great, but for different reasons. Regardless, we need to learn from these other spaces that have successful mechanisms because we should not believe we have it all figured out just because we're in the field of business. Let's take these concepts and apply them so that we can make the most out of our team and give them a healthy environment to not just survive but thrive.
Quick announcement: we're on episode 5, so exciting, but I'm about to take a trip for work to India for the next two weeks. So instead of pushing out a couple of mediocre episodes just so that you have them, I'm gonna take a pause so that that way I can come back and resume with the same level of research and dedication as I've given you so far in episodes one through five.
See? I can do 85 percent too!
You've just finished the latest installment of everything is A People Problem. You can find episode transcripts with work cited on diazaferjoyce.com/podcast. Find me on Instagram @EverythingIsAPeopleProblem, and tell me what you thought of the episode. If you like what you heard, please subscribe so that you're notified when new weekly episodes become available. Once again, I'm your host, Dia Zafer-Joyce.
Today's episode was written and produced by Dia Zafer-Joyce. It featured insights and statistics from Harvard Business Review, Runner’s World, TheWisemanGroup.com, and Zippia.com, and royalty free music provided by Sarah, the instrumentalist from Epidemic Sound.
